Debunking MatPat's Hollow Knight Theory Script
I am literally shaking and crying right now. I
can’t believe MatPat has done this. Is nothing in this world sacred anymore? Is
no work of art free from this man’s grasp? Oh god, I can’t do this. How could
MatPat really say all those things about the Canterbury Tales? What did Chaucer
ever do to deserve this? I mean, sure, that deathbed confession right at the
end felt pretty contrived, but the Wife of Bath’s Tale has given us precious
insight into the role of women during the Late Middle Ages. He probably even
thinks the Decameron is better written. Pathetic. Someone has to stand up
against this monster. Someone has to tear his fu-, oh shit he gave me a
shout out. Umm… Thanks.
So the Game Theorists have finally put out a
Hollow Knight lore video, and MatPat himself uttered my name with his own two
lips. The capitalization in the video is wrong, “mossbag” is supposed to
be all lowercase. I mean, it’s literally how I start every video, but that’s
okay. I’m still cool with it. Thanks to MatPat, my original Hollow Knight lore
video finally hit 1 million views. And more importantly, I’ve gained over one thousand
new followers on Twitter, so now even more people can read my reviews of each
and every episode of the King of the Hill. It’s also great to see a video about
Hollow Knight trend on YouTube. This community really has come a long way. But
as cool as all that is, MatPat’s theory is… pretty bad.
Now I may not have 11 million subscribers like
MatPat does. And no, I’ve never given a copy of Undertale to the Pope. But I
did send the Dalai Lama a copy of my Rick and Morty spec script. And I am
something of a theorist myself. So I think I am qualified to make a response to
this new video.
And no, this isn’t some sort of takedown video.
I’m already mortal enemies with VaatiVidya and Indeimaus, I don’t need a third
YouTuber coming after me. Even if MatPat has defiled the sanctity of our fandom
with his completely terrible and abhorrently offensive… fuck. This isn’t going
well. I should just restart the video.
Here’s some context if you’re just joining in;
the Hollow Knight community’s reaction to this new video has been pretty
negative, mainly because there are a lot of perceived flaws in the theory. As a
result, there are some people saying that the Hollow Knight fanbase is toxic.
And yeah, maybe my initial reaction to MatPat’s video could be perceived as…
rude. But you have to understand that being an asshole is just part of my
online schick. It’s a completely original and clever concept, I know.
But in general, I don’t think this community is
too toxic. Some of us are just a little defensive about the lore, that’s all.
But it is important to remember that, at the end of the day, MatPat is just a
guy who wanted to talk about Hollow Knight, and I’ve got nothing against that.
It just gives me an excuse to talk about this game even more. That being said,
I reckon it’s time to get out the propane and propane accessories, boys and
girls, because we’re about to burn this theory to the ground.
So if you haven’t seen the Game Theorists video
yet, I recommend you check it out. I’m going to go through all of MatPat’s
arguments, but I’m not going to play his whole video through, so you’ll have to
watch it yourself if you want the full context. Then you can watch this video
and come to your own conclusion about Hollow Knight’s lore. The issue on debate
here has to do with the nature of the Knight and the whereabouts of the Pale
King. MatPat’s theory is that the Knight is actually the Pale King
reincarnated.
We are supposedly just another one of those failed experiments,
except I don’t think that’s the case here. If you stop and dig through the
massive amounts of secret lore hidden throughout this game, it’s my belief that
we’re not just some random nobody. We are, in fact, royalty. A king, the King,
in fact. It’s my belief that in Hollow Knight we’re playing as the Pale King
himself. (4:55-5:21)
This isn’t a new theory. It’s been around for a
while, but I’ve never really talked about it here on this channel. There are
several problems with this theory, the biggest one being the lack of evidence.
A lot of the evidence that MatPat will present in this video can be interpreted
in ways that make much more sense when put in a different context. Second,
there are pieces of evidence that contradict this theory. You can poke a lot of
small holes in MatPat’s timeline here and a few bigger ones as well, with the
biggest hole being that you literally see the Knight with the Pale King in the
same room. But I’m getting ahead of myself.
Let’s start with MatPat’s first argument: The
Higher Being tablets in the King’s Pass, which all begin with the phrase “Higher
Beings, these words are for you alone.” These tablets are very mysterious,
and I don’t think that there is really a consensus on what they mean. One
theory I see a lot is that these tablets were left here for the Vessels, as a
way to teach them how to focus soul. But then why did the Pale King leave a
lore tablet like this in the Ancient Basin or the Howling Cliffs. They don’t
contain information that would be pertinent to them and some of these tablets
seem to predate the creation of the Vessels.
Another theory is that the tablets are addressed
to the bugs that were granted higher thought through the Pale King’s beacon.
The problem with that theory is that the tablets teach how to focus soul, which
doesn’t seem like a thing that regular bugs can do. At least not easily.
Personally I believe this explanation is the correct one, but my thoughts on it
are super speculative. I’ve linked a document below if you want to check it
out. So yeah, these tablets are quite mysterious indeed, but for MatPat’s
argument, all that really matters is the fact that the Knight can read them
even though they are stated as being intended for only Higher Beings.
MatPat explains that Higher Beings are godlike
creatures, mentioning the Reddit AMA post and the Kingsoul charm description. I
agree with Mat here. He then mentions that pretty much only Godlike beings can
manipulate soul.
The tablet even says quote “...you shall achieve feats of which
others can only dream.” Again, setting apart soul users like our Knight from
pretty much every other creature that we encounter throughout this game. (6:53-7:06)
Now MatPat does say “pretty much every other
creature” so I can’t say he’s wrong, but there are examples of creatures that
can manipulate soul that aren’t Higher Beings. Two examples of this would be
the Snail Shamans and the scholars of the Soul Sanctum. The Snail Shaman gives
the Knight the Vengeful Spirit charm, and another soul spell can be found near
another shaman in the Overgrown Mound.
The Higher Being tablet in the King’s Pass
teaches the Knight how to focus soul. We see the word “focus” again in the
Ancestral Mound, where there is a Whispering Root that gives the Dream Nail
dialogue “Spiral focus”. I think this is referring to how the shaman can
focus soul to cast spells just like the Knight. The word “spiral” probably
refers to the spiral of the snail shell the shaman is wearing. Now the nature
of the Snail Shamans is a little sketchy, seemingly tied to the void somehow,
but I don’t think they are Higher Beings.
However, the bugs of the Soul Sanctum are
definitely not Higher Beings. They were able to learn how to manipulate soul
through diligent practice and study, but as a result, their minds have begun to
swell and ache, so it’s not really an ideal situation. In the Soul Sanctum
there’s a lore tablet that also mentions their desire to “attain a pure
focus”. And while they may not have been totally successful, these bugs
have proven that they were capable of manipulating soul.
And the specific Focus ability that the Knight
learns from the lore tablet is not specific to just this Vessel. During the
Pure Vessel fight, the Hollow Knight uses a move that’s described in the game’s
code as being a Focus ability. So this ability doesn’t appear to separate the
Knight from the other Vessels. But ultimately, I don’t think this really hurts
the point MatPat is trying to make, that being that the Knight is a Higher
Being.
So not only are we reading tablets reserved for Higher Beings, but
we’re also using skills reserved for the Godlike creatures of the world on par
with the Pale King. Does it really sound like we’d just be some failed
experiment cast into the depths of this world? (7:06-7:22)
I think it’s possible that the Knight is a
Higher Being in some regard, but that doesn’t mean the Knight has to be a
reincarnation of the Pale King. The Knight, the Hollow Knight and the other
Vessels are the offspring of the Pale King and the White Lady. There is a lot
of evidence for this. There’s the White Lady, who literally calls the Knight
her spawn. The line “Born of God and Void” from the Birthplace cutscene alludes
to the Vessels being born from the White Lady and Pale King, but then being
corrupted by the void. And there’s the fact that the Pale King and White Lady
had a quote unquote union.
[Sexy music]
I don’t think MatPat is arguing against this
point, but calling the Knight a “failed experiment” could lead people to believe that the Vessels really aren’t the Pale King’s
biological children. Granted, Grimm does call the Knight a “craft”, but this is
possibly just referring to how the Vessels are a combination of the spawn of
Higher Beings mixed with the influence of void.
Another big piece of evidence for this is the
fact that the achievement you get for defeating the Hollow Knight with Hornet
by your side is called “Sealed Siblings”. This confirms that the Knight and
Hornet are siblings, and we know that Hornet is the daughter of the Pale King
since the White Lady mentions that the Pale King had sex with Herrah the
Beast.
[Sexier music]
Not only does this strengthen the argument that
the Vessels were the literal children of the Pale King, but it also pretty much
confirms that the Knight specifically is a child of the Pale King, which, by
the way, debunks MatPat’s whole theory. So I guess we can end the video
now.
As I was saying, being the literal children of
two Higher Beings would suggest that the Knight and all the other Vessels are
also Higher Beings as well. This is hinted at for the Hollow Knight at least in
the Hunter’s Journal entry for the Pure Vessel, which mentions that it has a
holy shell. So I don’t think this attribute separates the Knight as being unique
compared to the other Vessels.
This is an argument you’re going to hear me use
a lot in this video. A lot of the connections MatPat makes between the Knight
and the Pale King can be explained by remembering that the Knight is the Pale
King’s child. The reason we should interpret it this way is because the game
explicitly tells us that the Knight is the Pale King’s child, while there
really isn’t anything telling us they are the same person.
After this argument, MatPat brings up the very
beginning of the game, the Elegy for Hallownest. MatPat first mentions that the
poem itself isn’t about Hallownest, but is instead about the Pale King.
You don’t know it when you start the game, but this poem is about
the Pale King. (8:07-8:12)
So this poem is called Elegy for Hallownest, but
the poem itself seems to be addressed to a person. So it’s not a stretch to
think that the poem is actually talking about the Pale King. Hallownest is the
Pale King’s kingdom, and everything that Hallownest offered to travelers was
because of the Pale King. The two are so closely entwined that the poem is
pretty much saying the same thing regardless of if it’s addressed to a
personified version of Hallownest or to the Pale King himself. Then MatPat goes
into what the poem means when it says that the Pale King tamed savage souls and
redeemed base instincts.
In the beginning of the game’s lore, all bugs were basically a
hive mind controlled by the moth god, Radiance. The Pale King was the one who
expanded the minds of bugs, giving them individuality and sapience, showing
them, as the poem says, a world that they had never dreamed. (8:28-8:44)
There really isn’t any evidence that the
Radiance’s control was widespread before the Pale King’s arrival. I’m not
saying it’s impossible, but another possibility is that the bugs didn’t have
individuality or sapience because they were living in a wasteland similar to
what we see outside of Hallownest. Those bugs don’t have minds, as it would be
a weakness out in the wild.
But when the Pale King showed up, he established
a kingdom and expanded the minds of these bugs. He also drew the attention of
the moth tribe, who were at the time worshipping the Radiance, but ended up
yeeting her out of their memory, causing her to be sealed away. The infection
and the hive mind might have been the result of the Radiance’s imprisonment, as
the Moss Prophet explains: “To stifle that light is to suppress nature.
Nature suppressed distorts, plagues us.” This implies that the infection is
a byproduct of the Radiance being sealed away.
This makes more sense to me than the Radiance
already having bugs enslaved in a hivemind, and that the Pale King just
strolled in and saved them. I mean, if you look at what is happening in this
animation, it doesn’t really make sense, does it? If the Pale King can just
cure infection like this, then what’s the point of all the stuff that happens
later with the Vessels?
It’s important to note, too, that this isn’t a poem about the Pale
King, but it’s directed to the Pale King. “Your name”. “You the challenge met”.
And then what do we see on screen just moments later? Our Knight. It would be
one thing if the poem was just about the Pale King, but the fact that it’s
directed at him just seconds before we actually see our character makes it seem
like the designers are drawing a parallel between this king of legend and our
first appearance on screen. We are the “you” in that poem. (8:44-9:15)
Except there’s a whole other cutscene in between
this poem and when we see the Knight. By this logic, this means that the Hollow
Knight is the Pale King. I mean, technically, we do see Zote moments after this
poem, a few thousand moments maybe, but the principle still applies. But even
if the Intro cutscene with the Knight appeared right after the poem, I still
wouldn’t find it compelling. I mean, we are entering Hallownest, and the poem
is talking about Hallownest or at least the person who built it, so why does
the Knight have to be factored into this at all?
Let's move on to Elderbug. There are a lot of
places you could look to find information about the Pale King. The Elderbug is
not one of them. As you’ll see, I don’t think MatPat’s interpretations of
Elderbug’s dialogue makes any sense. MatPat argues that Elderbug’s dialogue
about dreams hints at the Knight being the Pale King.
The usage of the word “dreams” is important since at the beginning
of the game, not knowing the lore of this world, we all assume it’s just our
Knight pursuing the dream of wealth or fame, just like the Elderbug says. But
late in the game, we get ourselves an item called the Dream Nail, which is how
we unlock memories of the past and ultimately defeat the Radiance inside the
mind of Hollow Knight. It’s also the tool that allows us to find the Pale
King’s White Palace. It is a place that is literally hidden in dreams. So like
Elderbug says we are seeking our dreams in perhaps a very literal sense. Which
is especially true if we are playing as the Pale King. (9:51-10:32)
The Knight goes to a lot of different places in
the Dream World, so I don’t know what makes the White Palace so special. This
interpretation also ignores the rest of the Elderbug’s dialogue. Elderbug goes
on to warn about the infection below and finishes by saying “Perhaps dreams
aren’t such great things after all…” This dialogue make sense if we link it
back to the Radiance. The Radiance’s infection begins by plaguing the dreams of
a bug until their will becomes enslaved. In fact, the achievement unlocked for
beating the Radiance is called “Dream No More”. So I think this line makes much
more sense if we interpret it as being a warning about the Radiance. If we
interpret those extra lines using MatPat’s reading, then the Elderbug is
telling us not to go to the White Palace, I guess?
Now, it’s worth noting that the Elderbug
mentions dreams again when you Dream Nail him after giving him the Delicate
Flower, remarking “Perhaps dreams aren’t such bad things after all...” I
think this just shows how the Knight has restored hope in Elderbug similar to
how it restores hope for Hallownest. Or something like that.
MatPat’s next point has to do with Elderbug’s
dialogue if you initially ignore him at the start of the game and then come
back. He’ll mention that he thought he saw a ghost.
If we are indeed the Pale King returning to a land that we once
abandoned, we would indeed be a ghost from the past. It’s another potentially
really clever play on words that I appreciated. Am I reading too much into
this? Maybe. But again this is clearly a team who has themselves a literary
flair and who like to make you really think about the words that they’re using. (10:49-11:09)
So MatPat is reading too much into this. Now to
be fair, the word “ghost” might actually be hinting at the Knight’s true
nature. The word “ghost” is only used nine other times in the game, all of
which are from Hornet when talking to the Knight. Hornet calls the Knight a
ghost because it is the dead shell of a child of the Pale King and White Lady
that has been hollowed out and animated by void. So maybe Elderbug’s dialogue
is alluding to that, but I still think this is just a common expression the
Elderbug is using.
The next part of MatPat’s video has to do with
how the Knight is recognized by a few different people as being related to the
King. First up is the White Lady.
During one of your interactions with the White Lady, A.K.A. the
Queen, she outright says to the Knight. “Is it more than just a Vessel? I feel
like once I’m again in the presence of my beloved Wyrm.” Wyrm being another
name for the Pale King. (11:22-11:36)
This dialogue only appears within a certain
context that MatPat fails to mention. This dialogue is triggered after the
Knight collects the Kingsoul charm. This charm is described as symbolizing a
union between two Higher Beings, and pieces of this charm can be found in the
possession of both the White Lady and the Pale King’s corpse. So part of this
charm literally came from the Pale King, which means it’s no surprise that the
White Lady thinks of him when the Knight has it and only when the Knight has
it.
Also when talking to the White Lady with the
Grimmchild charm fully upgraded she says this: “Success then for the scarlet
heart, and irony, to use my spawn to grow its own.” She literally calls the
Knight her spawn, so I don’t think the Knight is supposed to be her husband.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m into some kinky shit, but even I think that’s too much,
man.
And she’s not the only one who gets Kingly vibes from the player
character. The White Defender, one of the Pale King’s five main knights also
has interesting dialogue. Quote “Your noble bearing reminds me of our dear
King.” So that’s two of the King’s closest relations being reminded of their
dearly departed when they interact with us.
(11:36-11:55)
You don’t need to have the Kingsoul to fight the
White Defender, but notice how toned down this line is from what the White Lady
said. The White Defender says the Knight reminds him of the Pale King, which
makes sense considering the fact that the Knight is the child of the Pale King.
MatPat then mentions the Royal Retainers and how they bow to the Knight.
Ten out of ten Royal Retainers can’t be wrong. You are royalty,
plain and simple. (12:14-12:21)
Now some people in the comments section were
arguing that they only bow if the Knight has the King’s Brand, but that’s not
true. They bow regardless. This is an argument I’ve seen a lot from the people
who disagree with MatPat, that most of the characters being reminded of the
Pale King when looking at the Knight can be explained via the King’s Brand. But
you can reach the White Defender and the White Palace without the King’s Brand.
To my knowledge, the only character confirmed to explicitly mistake the Knight
for the Pale King due to the King’s Brand is Eternal Emilitia.
But it doesn’t really matter that the Knight
doesn’t have the King’s Brand, because you can still argue that the Royal
Retainers are bowing because the Knight is related to the Pale King. There are
statues of the Hollow Knight in the White Palace after all, which could mean
that they revered Vessels as well as the Pale King.
But there are a lot of questions surrounding the
Royal Retainers. If you Dream Nail them, they appear to be talking to the Pale
King. They mention things like “...We will wait... King…” and “...King...
Your troubles... Let us…” Another detail worth mentioning is that the Royal
Retainers explode into Essence when they are killed, leaving no corpse behind.
So what should we make of this?
It seems to me like these bugs are unaware that
the Pale King is dead, and are awaiting him to take some sort of action, but
are worried about his state of mind. The Dream Nail dialogue doesn’t imply that
they recognize the Knight as the Pale King who has finally returned, but again,
there’s something weird going on with these guys. They seem to be living in the
past, and are not really in a lucid state of mind. So yeah, I think there’s a
lot of mystery surrounding these guys, but sum this section up, I still agree
with Mat’s point here, that being that the Knight is royalty. But again, that
doesn’t help prove this reincarnation theory, because we know that the Knight
is royalty through it being the Pale King’s child.
MatPat then goes into a discussion about how the
Pale King went from his first Wyrm form into his second bug form. This occurred
at Kingdom’s Edge where the Wyrm’s corpse can still be found. A fatass
caterpillar named Bardoon explains that when Wyrms die, they don’t just die,
but actually transform into something else.
So Bardoon knows the Pale King spawned out of the Wyrm. He clearly
says that the kingdom of his doing, but this line of “More transformation”
seems to imply that the Pale King’s death would only lead to yet another form.
Do we think that Team Cherry put this line in here for no reason? I think not! (13:20-13:38)
Bardoon isn’t saying “more transformation” as in
there will be another transformation. He’s saying that death for a Wyrm is more
like a transformation. Now is there anything in the game that says the Pale King
can or cannot transform a second time? Well, no. But we don’t really have any
proof that the Pale King did transform into a third form. Let’s look at the egg
that the Pale King hatched out of from the Wyrm. Page 111 of the Wanderer’s
Journal discusses this transition.
What happened to the Wyrm from there is a mystery; it doesn’t
appear to have died there, so perhaps it shed its gargantuan form and became
something different entirely. Deep within the maw of the carcass, a pale,
broken egg of some sort hints at such a rebirth. - Wanderer’s Journal pg. 111
This implies that the Pale King hatched out of
the egg inside the Cast-off Shell of the Wyrm. So how exactly does the Pale
King’s third form materialize? We find his corpse on the throne, but we can’t
go inside him to check if there’s another egg in there. There’s the egg on the
right hand side of the room, but that doesn’t really seem like something a
creature would hatch from. It was probably even made before the Pale King’s
second form died, since it appears to be written from his perspective. But
MatPat has his own theory about all this, so let’s table this discussion for
now.
After talking about how the Pale King might have
a third form, MatPat begins to explain what void is, where it’s found and how
it works. He draws our attention to the lore tablet found in the Pale King’s
workshop. This tablet explains that the Void is opposed to the Pale King, but
that Void contains a power to deny Time itself.
This quote is interesting. Based on the clues in that work room as
well as the game’s bestiary, we know that the Pale King was using void to
create soldiers, the Kingsmoulds and Wingmoulds that populate his white palace.
We also know that he was using void to create the Vessels intended to trap the
infection. Vessels like the Hollow Knight, which would also include our
character. But this quote is referencing him using the void for yet another
purpose, a third purpose. Not fighting the Radiance, not protecting his castle,
but instead, fighting time itself. He wants to use the void to achieve eternal
life for himself, for his kingdom, it’s unclear, but it once again gives
credence to the idea that in his next life, he would choose to rebirth himself
as a void based creature, one not bound by the restrictions of time, one just
like our Knight. (14:18-15:08)
I kind of agree with a little bit of this, but
not really. I think the purpose of denying Time refers the Radiance, who the
Pale King is trying to stop in order to keep his kingdom lasting eternally.
There are several bits of dialogue to look over here. Both Hornet and the Hive
Queen Vespa refer to Hallownest as being in perpetuation, or in other words,
frozen in time. Monomon calls Hallownest “A world forever unchanging”. Both
Hornet and the Mask Maker mention that the kingdom is in stasis.
And then we have the dialogue directly
connecting all of this to the Hollow Knight. The monuments to the Hollow Knight
and the Dreamers mention that through their actions, Hallownest lasts eternal.
The lore tablet in the White Palace throne room reads “Eternity in promise
and charge in progeny cursed.” This line is likely referring to how the
Pale King planned to keep his kingdom lasting eternally by somehow cursing his
descendants. And that’s exactly what he did.
The Hollow Knight is described by Hornet as
being our “birth-cursed sibling”. And Hornet has Dream Nail dialogue
during the Greenpath fight that reads “Only pity for your cursed kind.”
All of this is done to hold back the Radiance. The Radiance is alluded to as
being a force of nature by Bardoon, the Moss Prophet and Hive Queen Vespa. The
Radiance is the inevitable dawn that will eventually break over the horizon.
Now dev notes aren’t necessarily canon, but there are also dev notes explaining
that the kingdom is in stasis and that the events of Hollow Knight take place
over one long night.
So to recap, the “deny Time” line from the
tablet in the Pale King’s workshop is probably referring to how the Pale King
planned to create a Vessel that could be used to deny the arrival of the
Radiance, placing all of Hallownest in some kind of stasis. Nothing implies
that the Pale King was doing this to himself. I would argue that void could
never give the Pale King eternal life. The Void is the power opposed, so it
would probably kill him if he tried to fuse with it. After all, we know that
the Vessels were killed by the void, since the White Lady mentions that the
Knight died in the Birthplace where it was born.
Making this connection even more interesting are the eggs. Just
outside the Pale King’s throne room is a lore tablet housed inside of a black
egg, a tablet that speaks of the ancient Wyrm becoming the Pale King. It seems
to suggest that this egg here is where version 1.0 of the Pale King hatched
into its upgraded form as it were. And now look at the birthplace of our
Knight, down in the Abyss: A similar black egg. Could it be where version 2.0
transformed yet again? (15:08-15:36)
I don’t believe the phrase “The Wyrm becomes
beacon” is talking about the Pale King’s transformation. I think this sentence
is about how the Pale King expanded the minds of bugs. Basically the Pale King
was able to grant bugs sapiance through his “beacon”. But we don’t really have
a lot of information on this. If I had to guess, I’d say it might be some sort
of metaphysical power. The word beacon is used only one other time in the whole
game, and it’s by the Godseeker. She says:
Even long departed, We feel the afterglow of the God-power that
sat this throne... It lays heavy upon this kingdom. That lingering power alone
was beacon enough to draw Us to Hallownest. How bright it must have been to
mortal bug stood before it.
So the afterglow of the Pale King’s God-power
acted as a beacon for the Godseekers. Is this the same concept as the beacon
mentioned in this lore tablet? MatPat appears to think “beacon” is another name
for the Pale King’s smaller form, which I guess is possible, but it’s kind of a
weird name. When I see this, I don’t really think of this.
I’m a little confused by MatPat’s next point.
Like I said earlier, there is evidence to suggest that the egg the Pale King
was hatched from is found in the Cast-Off Shell in Kingdom’s Edge. Here, MatPat
is arguing that the egg in the throne room is what the Pale King hatched from.
What’s confusing to me is that earlier in the video, it’s implied that the
Cast-Off Shell egg was what the Pale King hatched from.
It is clearly established in the lore that the king has the
ability to transform. In fact, the Pale King form is actually his version 2.0. (12:28-12:37)
I don’t know if there was some miscommunication
between MatPat and one of his editors or if there was a script change or
something, but I figured I’d point this out because... it’s weird. The video
gets it right initially but then contradicts itself a few minutes later.
So it seems unlikely that the Pale King was
hatched from the egg in the throne room. So what exactly is going on with this
egg? Honestly, I don’t know. There are a few other eggs in the game that appear
to store information similar to this one. The egg-looking things found in the
King’s Pass, Ancient Basin and Black Egg are all lore tablets. We also know
that the Arcane Eggs were used to store information. Is this egg similar to
those eggs in its creation and design? On the other hand, the floor here is
similar to the floor found in the Black Egg, so maybe it’s related to that.
Regardless, it seems pretty unlikely that the Pale King was born from this egg
given that the Wanderer’s Journal does everything short of flat out saying he
hatched from the egg in the Cast-off Shell.
Finally, MatPat questions whether or not the
Pale King’s third form was born out of this egg in the Abyss, the one our
Knight was presumably born from. This is where things really go off the rails.
Remember how I mentioned before that the Knight and the Pale King show up in
the same room at one point? Well, that happens in a cutscene that can be
triggered after the Knight strikes its own reflection on this egg with the
Dream Nail. In this sequence the Knight climbs to the top of the Abyss. When
they get there, they see the Pale King leaving alongside a younger version of
the Hollow Knight that looks back before the Knight plunges back into the
darkness. After this cutscene, the Kingsoul charm turns into the Void Heart, a
charm required to unlock the four alternate endings to the game.
This cutscene is arguably one of the most
important moments in the game, showing the Pale King at one of his lowest
points, choosing to sacrifice his children to the void in order to create a
pure Vessel. There’s a lot of dialogue and symbolism surrounding this event,
and none of it hints at the Pale King becoming the Knight. Let’s look at the
Kingsoul again. This charm symbolizes the union between two Higher Beings. In
other words, this charm represents the children of the Pale King. When talking
to the White Lady with the charm, she will tell the Knight to visit “That
place where it was born, where it died, where it began...”. She is
referring to an area in the Abyss described as a Birthplace by the Kingsoul
charm.
In this location, the Knight finds its birthplace,
an egg connected to void tendrils. After experiencing the Birthplace cutscene,
the Kingsoul turns into the Void Heart. This is symbolic of the children of the
Pale King and White Lady becoming corrupted by the void itself. That’s what the
Pale King means when he says “Soul of Wyrm. Soul of Root. Heart of Void.”
The Knight acquiring the Void Heart symbolizes how it has come to terms with
its past. In fact, the achievement you get after this cutscene strongly implies
it’s a scene from the past. The Void achievement reads “Remember the past
and unite the Abyss”. The White Lady also remarks on this saying “Truly,
it has been transformed by the revelations it found.”
In summary, this scene is showing a memory from
the Knight when it was discarded into the Abyss by the Pale King. So in other
words, it’s completely impossible for the Pale King to hatch out of this egg if
what we see here is a memory. And like the achievement said, the cutscene
allows the Knight to remember its past.
Now MatPat didn’t mention this cutscene at all
in his video. However, he did leave a pinned comment addressing the issue. He
says that he cut the part talking about this scene from the video for both time
and because it was too complicated for the tone he was looking for in the
video. For his first point, videos on YouTube can be much longer than twenty
minutes, so that’s no excuse in my opinion. I get that the Game Theorists is a
big channel with employees, schedules, semi-annual office blood rituals,
overhead low toner: shit that I mostly don’t have to worry about. But if your
format is forcing you to cut crucial information out of your videos which are
trying to provide persuasive arguments, then you need to do some retooling. As
for his second point, I agree, it does complicate things, especially
considering it debunks his entire video if he can’t counter it.
But it’s not that big of a deal since MatPat
tackled the counterargument in this pinned comment. So let’s see what he’s got.
First he says that the Pale King is transparent in this scene, which might hint
at him not really being there. I have no idea what MatPat is talking about
here. The Pale King does have a glow around him in this scene, but the Pale
King has been described as being a light or giving off a light by Seer, the
Archive tablets, the throne room tablet, the Last Stag and Eternal Emilitia. So
the transparency argument is debunked by… having eyes.
Then MatPat says that because the Birthplace
cutscene is a dream sequence, technically anything is possible. Which… umm…
“I’ll give it to you, you got me there”
“Right”
“So…”
I mean, sure, anything is possible. Hell, maybe
Ronald McDonald was there too, but the Knight suppressed that memory so much we
just can’t see him. There are a lot of different ways to interpret something,
but the best interpretations are the ones that line up with what we know about
the rest of the game’s lore. If we just assume that this is the Knight
remembering its own past, like the achievement message strongly implies, then
there aren’t really any problems with this cutscene.
But if we think the Pale King later turns into
the Knight, then this whole scene becomes a complete mess. This is the moment
the Knight has a huge revelation about its true nature. How exactly is this
scene revealing to the Knight that it is the Pale King? You’d think that this
moment would at least hint at it, and not completely contradict it. Why does
this scene exist at all? What’s the point of it? The weight of this entire
scene is neutered by MatPat’s theory. It no longer becomes an emotional moment
showing how the Knight was discarded just like the other thousands of Vessels,
but instead this scene becomes an eyesore, a loose end to a theory that sounds
cool on the surface, but doesn’t resonate with what we see in the game.
But I’ve been talking for way too long. Let’s
get back to MatPat. He then mentions how the nursery song in the White Palace
is the same song we hear when the Knight is next to its shade. He then mentions
the journal entry for the shade.
The description of these shadows reads “Echo of a previous life.
Each of us leaves an imprint of something when we die. A stain on the world.”
So the sound that accompanies our Knight’s past life conensides with the same
sound from a nursery housed inside the Pale King’s palace. The existence of a
connection between our Knight and the Pale King seems undeniable. (16:02-16:25)
I think there is a much better interpretation
for this. After the Pale King chose the Hollow Knight as the Vessel, the Hollow
Knight likely lived in the White Palace. We even see that this is the case in
the Path of Pain cutscene. So chances are, the Hollow Knight was kept in this
crib. The Hollow Knight is, of course, similar to the Knight in that it is a
child of the Pale King and White Lady and it also has a shade similar to the
Knight. Connecting this nursery song to the Pale King to say he became a void
creature is a much bigger leap, and it also has another problem that I will get
into shortly. But first let me play another section of MatPat’s video.
It’s almost as if the King laid the groundwork for him to be
reborn as void, died, was hatched of void from the black egg in the Abyss, was
taken back to the palace to be raised and was eventually sent away from the
kingdom to avoid succumbing to the infection, only to be called back when he
was older when the Hollow Knight started losing control. (16:25-16:44)
Okay, let’s take this piece by piece. First
MatPat says that the King made the groundwork for him to be reborn as void.
There is no evidence for this. I’m guessing MatPat is basing this off of the
“deny Time” section of the workshop tablet, but again, l don’t think the tablet
is referring to the Pale King’s desire to become a void creature at all.
Next he says the Pale King died.
[Sad Music]
Damn, I actually completely agree with MatPat on
this one. This calls for a celebration.
[Happy Music]
He then says the Pale King was hatched of void
from the black egg in the Abyss. I don’t think that is the case. We see that
the first transformation of the Pale King was from an egg inside of the Wyrm
corpse. But for his second transformation, he somehow died in the White Palace
and turned into an egg larger than his own body? And then the egg was somehow
transported to the Abyss despite the fact that the gateway to the Abyss was
sealed?
Now in his pinned comment, MatPat pointed out an
issue out that I think is valid. He asked how exactly were the Vessels even
able to escape the Abyss in the first place? This has been a pretty big
question in the lore for a while now. In a Reddit AMA, Team Cherry mentioned
that they weren’t sure how it happened, so yeah, they’re pretty much useless as
usual. This issue can kinda counter my argument here. If there are multiple
entrances to the Abyss, then of course they could get the egg back down there.
I still don’t buy that explanation, but I do have a theory about how the
Vessels escaped. In the bottom right corner of Deepnest, there is an area that
has clearly been influenced by the void, and not far from there we can see that
several Vessels have been captured by Nosk in its lair. So there might be some
hidden passage between the Abyss and Deepnest that the Vessels were able to
navigate through.
Next MatPat says that the Pale King was taken
back to the White Palace to be raised. So who exactly raised the Pale King? Was
it the White Lady then? That’s likely her silhouette on the chair, right? Does
this mean the White Lady is in on the plan too? Because if that’s the case, I
have a few issues. First of all, why doesn’t she recognize the Pale King
immediately if she literally raised him? Why does she call the Knight her
spawn? But my bigger issue here is what the White Lady says when the Knight
first meets her. She says:
One arrives. Far it walks to find me. Did it seek my aid? Or did
the path carry it by chance to so pertinant a place? It is true. True, that you
were awaited. No. Perhaps that is inaccurate. True one like you was awaited.
Pay attention to how she talks. The White Lady
is indeed waiting for a Vessel to come find her, but not any one Vessel in
particular. She says “one like you was awaited”. She is looking for any
Vessel, not a specific one. If she was in on the Pale King’s plan, then why
wouldn’t she be looking for him specifically? And if she isn’t in on the plan,
what’s the deal with her silhouette on this chair?
MatPat finishes by saying that the Pale King was
sent away to avoid succumbing to the infection and then was brought back when
he was older. I don’t really have any issues with this section, but I do have a
broader issue with this theory that I’d like to talk about. According to the
Hollow Knight game manual, the Pale King went into hiding as his kingdom fell
to ruin. Relic Seeker Lemm mentions that the Pale King’s palace disappeared
without any sign of struggle. And in the Wanderer’s Journal, Ellina mentions
that it appears as though the Pale King took the White Palace and his court
with him when he fled.
So if MatPat’s theory is true, then how does
this information fit with the lore? Is the game manual just completely wrong?
And what’s the deal with the White Palace disappearing? If the Pale King didn’t
use it to hide in, then why is it even in the Dream World? How exactly did the
Pale King get out of the White Palace if it had a seal on it? MatPat doesn’t
really address any of this, even though it’s probably the most relevant pieces
of information related to what actually happened to the Pale King after the Hollow
Knight was sealed.
Moving on, MatPat explains how the line “No cost
too great” that the Pale King says when you Dream Nail him could be referring
to how he sacrificed himself to become the Knight and take on the infection
himself. The line is also used at the beginning of the Birthplace memory, so
the first time the Pale King says it, it’s definitely referring to the creation
of the Vessels. But I’m not against the phrase being recontextualized to mean
something else. I just don’t think there’s enough evidence to really prove
that.
MatPat then gives more evidence for why the
Knight being a reincarnated Pale King makes sense.
The Knight being a reincarnated Pale King would explain how a
nameless, faceless Knight is so easily able to accept the King’s Brand item
which outright marks him as a king. (17:38-17:48)
I don’t think that’s the case. The King’s Brand
is guarded by Hornet, which makes me think that getting the brand itself isn’t
hard, but Hornet doesn’t want others getting to it, unless they can prove their
strength like the Knight did. We also have Hornet saying this when she hints
for the player to go to the Kingdom’s Edge: “Seek the Grave in Ash and the
mark it would grant to one like you.” “One like you” implies that
Vessels in general are able to receive the mark, and that makes sense. Midwife
also calls the King’s Brand a “bright mark of relationship” which I
interpret as saying the mark’s bearer is a relation to the Pale King. On top of
that, the Vessels are the children of the Pale King, so since he’s dead, any
one of them should be able to become the next “King”.
Also, MatPat keeps referring to the Knight and
the Hollow Knight using male pronouns, but ingame they are never given genders.
In fact, Hornet is called the gendered child just to signify how the rest of
the Pale King’s children lack genders. I assume MatPat is just using male
pronouns for convenience, but that’s no excuse to misgender these poor bugs.
They have it hard enough.
It would explain how just like the Pale King snapped the bugs out
of their collective stupor during his lifetime, our Knight, as you go through
the game, is doing exactly the same thing, waking up bugs from the infection
and getting them to return to a life in Dirtmouth. (17:48-18:03)
To be fair, the Knight only saves two bugs from
the infection, Sly and Bretta. And these two are very rare exceptions. The
Knight isn’t able to cure any of the other infected bugs we see. You’d think
that would be easier than fighting them off. And of course we can’t forget, if
the Knight really can snap bugs out of the infection so easily, why can’t we save
Myla? Did we really fail her that much? She really deserved better.
[Sad music]
On top of that the Pale King couldn’t snap bugs
out of the infection either. That was the whole point of the Vessel. It was the
only way the Pale King could deal with the infection.
It would explain how only you and the Pale King are seen to use
the Monarch Wings item. (18:03-18:07)
That’s true, but the Monarch Wings could
probably be worn by any Vessel, as long as they had a cape for the Monarchflies
to morph into.
And if all of that wasn’t enough to convince you, in cut dialogue
that was datamined from the game, if you dream nail the final boss, the Hollow
Knight himself, it will say this “...Father…” Doesn’t get much more explicit
than that. (18:07-18:22)
Okay, so first of all, this is cut dialogue, so
it really should be taken with a grain of salt. Now I am guilty of doing this a
lot myself, and it’s a bad habit that I do need to break. Second, just because
the Hollow Knight is thinking about its father, that doesn’t mean it thinks
that the Knight is its father. Love for its father would probably be the only
thought the Hollow Knight could have, so it would probably think that even if
the Knight wasn’t there. Look at the jellyfish in the Fog Canyon or the flukes
in the Royal Waterways. They think about Monomon and the Flukemarm respectively
without being in the same room as them.
The rest of the video is just recapping the
theory, with one additional section discussing why the Pale King left
Hallownest.
He studies the void so that he’s eventually able to be reborn with
its power, hatching down in the Abyss, getting cared for in the safety of the
White Palace and then being released out to the lands beyond Dirtmouth, a place
where canonically bugs lose all their memories. This self exile for a period of
year is probably for two reasons. One, his own protection from the Radiance,
and two, losing his memory helps make him purely hollow. No memory, no desire,
no past life. He’s now an empty Vessel so that, should it come down to it, he
can now be the one to take on the Hollow Knight’s place. (18:56-19:29)
I don’t really have any problems with this
section that I haven’t brought up already, other than that it begs the question
of how exactly the Void Heart fits into all this. Hornet mentions multiple
times that the Knight needs to pursue the deeper truth and learn of the tragedy
of its own conception. And she commends the Knight on accepting the void inside
itself. There’s nothing about coming to terms with being the next reincarnation
of the Pale King. Why is such an important part of the story completely glossed
over for a different theme about the Knight coming to terms with the void
inside itself?
And that's really my biggest problem with this
theory. It just doesn’t congeal with the lore you see in the game. Sure, you
could argue that the Elderbug refers to the Knight as a ghost because the
Knight is literally the Pale King returning to Hallownest after years of
self-exile. You could argue that the Pale King was planning to turn himself
into a void creature in an attempt to deny Time and live forever. And you could
probably even find a way to interpret the Birthplace cutscene so that it
doesn’t debunk the entire theory. But do all these things really feel like what
the game is saying? Or do they feel like someone is looking too hard to justify
their own theory, despite what evidence, or lack thereof, they find in the
game?
Now, I’d like to reiterate. My intention with
this video isn’t to attack MatPat. Remember that pinned comment I mentioned
earlier. Well since I first wrote this script, MatPat has replaced that comment
with another one providing a detailed critique of his arguments originally
written by Sumwan. If you don’t know who Sumwan is, she has done a lot for this
community, helping update the wiki to include detailed and sourced lore
sections. And she’s also helped me with my videos by proofreading my scripts,
so she definitely has a strong understanding of the lore. Seeing MatPat display
her detailed rebuttal in a pinned comment is really cool, and it shows that
MatPat is open to criticism about his theories.
So yeah, those are just a few of the thoughts I
had on MatPat’s video. If you’re a fan of MatPat and didn’t really know the
lore of Hollow Knight going into this video, then hopefully you can see why our
community got a little upset. This theory really is beyond saving. Even the
Pope couldn’t resurrect it. That’s what the Pope does, right? If you’re a fan
of me or just Hollow Knight in general, then hopefully you can see that MatPat
isn’t trying to disrespect this game or mislead people. He’s been very
receptive to the criticism, and you can tell that this video clearly has a lot
of love put into it. I mean, fuck, I wish my videos looked half as good as
this. I just now figured out how to use overlays in Sony Vegas. Look at this.
Pretty cool, huh?
If you’re not a fan of me or Hollow Knight or
MatPat, then what the fuck are you doing here? Why’d you just watch this whole
fucking video? All in all, no harm, no foul. And I’m sure that the animation
showing that Hornet was made of void was just an accident. Otherwise I take
everything back.
So in conclusion, I guess this is a really
roundabout way of saying this, but I suppose the whole point I’m trying to make
here is that VaatiVidya and Indeimaus are a couple of bitch ass motherfuckers.
MatPat’s video:
Reddit Threads/Memes:
https://www.reddit.com/r/HollowKnightMemes/comments/cal8k0/they_hated_him_because_he_told_the_truth/
Sumwan’s Rebuttal:
MatPat’s reaction to counterarguments:
Team Cherry AMA Abyss question:
My theory on the King's Pass tablets:
Sakura Cherry Blossom Effect Overlay:
Fireworks Mega Blaster Overlay:
Songs used:
Sad Day - Bensound
Sad Day - Bensound
Fungal Wastes OST
Greenpath (Main Loop)
Greenpath (Bass Loop)
Let's Get It On - Marvin Gaye
Broken Vessel OST
Obstacle Course - Super Smash Bros. Brawl OST
Dung Defender OST
Dirtmouth OST
Kingdom's Edge OST
City of Tears (Inside Loop)
Soul Master
New Dream Cello
Resting Grounds OST
White Lady OST
Reflections OST
Birthplace (All Stages)
Godhome OST
Evil Morty's Theme - Rick and Morty OST
Celebration - Kool & The Gang
Haunted Gods (Firespawner Loop)
Crossroads (Main Loop)
Pure Vessel OST
Dreamers OST
Truth Beauty and Hatred OST
White
Palace OST
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